Say That Again

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“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another needs to say.” – Bryant McGill

My brief foray into podcasting has taught me something about listening. I tuned in to the podcast I did with playwright and friend, Jack Canfora, about his play Step 9 that was just released as a theatrical podcast. As the podcast played, I heard things that I didn’t remember from the conversation. And it wasn’t that I forgot, it was that I never caught some particular details.

This surprised me because recording a podcast conversation is about as ideal of a situation for listening as I can imagine. I was at home by myself, no distracting music (or family members), my email was turned off and I’d done the work to get myself completely comfortable before the conversation began. I was in a space of complete focus on listening and having a conversation.

The biggest lapse that struck me was in a part of our conversation when Jack was moving his computer. We recorded the podcast on a video call so my visual field changed as he changed spots. There isn’t any break in our dialogue but that little disturbance was enough so that I caught the major drift of what was happening but not the undertones.

Here’s my take-away – we never listen as well as we think we do. And since very few of our conversations are recorded, we don’t have the chance to go back and understand what we missed (and thank goodness – that would be time consuming!).

And if we’re talking and someone is looking us in the eye and nodding, they still might not be getting it all. Especially if there is ANYTHING in the environment to distract them.

This brings to mind the classic experiment on selective attention where researchers asked people to count how many times people in the white shirts passed the basketball to each other. And then asked if the people that had watch the video if they spotted anything unusual that happened in the background. The finding was that many miss the other things happening in and around the action.

Some of the best wisdom I’ve heard about speaking and listening is from author Paula Underwood Spencer, “If you want to be truly understood, you need to say everything three times, in three different ways. Once for each ear…and once for the heart.“

If we assume we get it all the first time it’s said we’re probably wrong. I know because I recently heard myself on a podcast.

43 thoughts on “Say That Again”

  2. Love that Paula Underwood Spencer quote – that’s new to me – and it’s perfect. Yes – one for the heart! I find good conversations often have loving elements of repetition, naturally. So good! And…speaking for myself…I often need the ‘take two’ or ‘take three’ opportunities. I can miss a lot because I wander in my own head! Thanks, Wynne! 😉😘😉

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    1. “loving elements of repetition” – such a great phrase, Vicki! Yes, it’s so easy to wander in our heads, isn’t it? Even in the best ways, it means we have to return. Thanks for the lovely comment, as always!

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  3. Learning to truly listen is a cultivated art that requires practice and patience. Good listening is more than just hearing what another has to say. It’s not just what they say but how and why. Being curious, open, and able to put aside your agenda helps. When you talk with someone who is truly listening, you get the sense that, for the time being, you are his only focus and there is nowhere else he needs to be. Research shows that this trait can make a person incredibly likable–if not irresistible. Which may explain why a patient often falls in love with their therapist!

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    1. I love how you incorporate the research about listening. It makes so much sense. And you are so right – the open, curious, selfless listener is irresistible – as are great commenters like you, Evelyn! Thank you!

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  4. This is oh, so true, Wynne. Even in reading blog posts, I find myself missing things. Often, I think we “tune in” to what’s going on in our lives at the moment. That’s not even accounting for the distraction factor. Listening is something I definitely need to work on, and I appreciate this great reminder!

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    1. Yes – so true that it’s possible to miss things when reading too. Great point, Kendra. I guess that’s why we just have to keep practicing returning. Thanks for the great comment!

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  6. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I’ve said to myself and out loud in conversations something like “Are you sure, I didn’t hear that remark” or “When did you say that? I missed that entirely…” I would like to ask for a major change in human genetics that will allow for the human brain to have the capacity to store everything that comes through our ears correctly AND internally play it back before we open our mouths to respond.

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  7. “Some of the best wisdom I’ve heard about speaking and listening is from author Paula Underwood Spencer, “If you want to be truly understood, you need to say everything three times, in three different ways. Once for each ear…and once for the heart.” Thanks Wynne this is very good advice, and I needed to hear it!

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  8. So true! It doesn’t seem to get better as we age, even though we may have developed better listening skills! *Sigh!*

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  11. Since you raised the issue of listening, I will add a bit about speaking. Here is a visual analog that applies to music and speech, Wynne. Think of music in terms of a foreground and a background. The foreground will be taken by the sounds, and the background by the silence. Thus, the sounds stand in relief.

    For speaking, translate the foreground into the spoken words and the background into the same silence. Speakers often go too fast, thus eliminating much of the background. If the speaker goes more slowly, the silence will make his words stand out.

    Potentially, using silence in this way will make the speaker’s words more memorable.

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    1. What a great example you’ve painted, Dr. Stein. I know that I definitely talk too fast so I’m taking your example to heart – especially for the things I really want to be heard. Thank you!

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  12. It is so very true. Listening is an art and a skill and it’s so hard sometimes in this age of multitasking. I’ve been remote working since the pandemic and I can vouch that my listening skills have degraded cuz the temptation to multitask is so high. I miss the days when we can have a conversation without distractions like our phones.

    How wonderful you got to catch what you missed in your conversation by listening to the recording!

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    1. The temptation to multitask is SO high – yes, you are right about that! So many distractions and the speed of life is pulling us along so to actually sit and have a conversation is such a luxury! Hope you have a lovely weekend with lots of great conversations, Ab!

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  13. Interesting post, Wynne, and some great points in the comments section. In my previous life as a police detective we were always taught to listen more with our eyes than our ears. According to research, words only account for about 7 per cent of communication. Around 55 per cent is non-verbal. This creates a difficulty for mediums like podcasts where the visual element is taken away. I think Dr. Stein summed it up perfectly and I will be taking away his advice for my own recordings. Have a good weekend and thanks for the post.

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    1. Wow, Davy – that is so interesting. I love your phrase “listen more with our eyes than our ears.” You are right that it does create a difficulty for podcasts and I love how you’re applying the analogy of Dr. Stein. Great food for thought and practice.

      Hope you have a lovely weekend too!

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  14. Ooooh I really love that quote by Paula Underwood Spencer, “If you want to be truly understood, you need to say everything three times, in three different ways. Once for each ear…and once for the heart.”

    I try to keep this in mind when I’m teaching. Points I really want them to take home I repeat verbatim. But I have also been working on ways to repeat them without them feeling repetitive – different activities that make the same point. It’s still a work in progress but we’ll get there.

    My partner and I also often discuss about this in terms of marketing on social media.

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    1. I love how you’ve applied this to teaching. What lucky students you have! And marketing too – that is such a great point. Maybe it’s when we’ve seen something in 3 different ways that marketing is effective. Thanks for extending this wisdom for me!!

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  15. That experiment you mention, was that in a Gladwell book? There was someone in a bear costume walking by and no one noticed?
    And then I consider that people don’t always remember what I remember having been said. I’ve frequently made a reference to a prior convo with someone only to see the look of confusion on their face. Shrug.

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    1. That’s a good question about whether it was in a gorilla book. I ‘think’ I read it in Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman but it’s been around a long time so it’s probably many places. And yes, it’s a gorilla costume – but other things like the curtain color change too.

      Yes, it’s that confused look that’s so telling. I guess we all need to just keep trying. Right my friend? 🙂 ❤ ❤ ❤

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  16. I have such a narrow focus of attention, I wouldn’t have even known there were other players on the court, or referees, or a crowd in the stands, or a basketball, or a net. Just the guys in white.

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  17. Two thoughts come to mind. One, when I was in college I can remember professors droning on and on, my mind wondering to the outfit I was going to wear to some party that night, when I came back to the lecture I discovered I missed huge chunks. I actually blocked out the lecture with my own thoughts. Taking notes was the trick to staying focused. Two, body language has just as much, if not more detail, then the actual words. I do believe our communication is a combination of body, thoughts (I know that sounds weird but I think we are able to subliminally intuit thoughts), and lastly words. Great post, lots of great points made in the comments. Hugs, C

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    1. Great points, Cheryl. I remember doing that in classes (and meetings too). Yes, when we aim to take notes, it helps, doesn’t it?

      And I agree about the body language and it doesn’t sound weird at all. You point out how we listen with more than our ears and then need to process it all!

      Thanks for reading and commenting!! Hope you have a great week!

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  18. Thank you for sharing!!.. I find that if I listen with my heart (and open mind), I rarely go wrong and with the aging process and mind filled with thoughts and memories, I do not hesitate to take notes, I even have a little pocket recorder that I leave notes on for future reference… 🙂

    Until we meet again..
    May your day be touched
    by a bit of Irish luck,
    Brightened by a song
    in your heart,
    And warmed by the smiles
    of people you love.
    (Irish Saying)

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